Why 60 Matters

A number of folks have been having an ongoing conversation with Matt Stoller over the propriety of the Democrats and the Netroots, in particular, shooting for 60 seats in the United States Senate this cycle (a conversation that was sparked most recently by MyDD's Road to 60 ActBlue page).

Stoller has written, for instance, that "we don't need 60 votes to move progressive priorities," but rather that "we need ... a committed group of Senators - perhaps as small as 25 or 30 - without whom the other clumps can't get anything done." He also points to Tom Coburn shutting down bills and Russ Feingold, who has sparked debates on issues like censure, as examples of what even a single Senator can accomplish.

In a minority situation, or even a majority when there is a President willing to veto anything and everything that doesn't adhere to his far right view of the world, individual and group obstruction is likely the best way to achieve the progressive agenda. In such cases, stopping a further rightward lurch can be preferable to enabling the other side to move forward with outright regressive legislation.

But the 111th Congress won't necessarily be such a situation. Certainly, I'm holding out hope that it will not, and rather that it would be a Congress in which progressives hope to move, rather than block, legislation. If Barack Obama is able to win the presidency, there is going to be a lot of legislative legwork to be done -- and it's not going to be easy, and it might not all get done. Sixty votes are going to need to be scrapped together on a whole host of issues: Passing a universal healthcare program, passing an energy reform bill, passing legislation that would put in place an end to the Iraq War, confirming true progressives to the Supreme Court... you name it. With the Republicans already topping the all-time record for filibusters by nearly 50 percent this Congress -- a Congress in which they didn't even really need to use the tactic in order to thwart the Democratic agenda given George W. Bush's veto stamp -- there is little question in my mind that the Republicans would make use of the tactic at least as often, if not more often, were it in their power to do so (and it was their only and last resort for obstruction) during a 111th Congress in which Democrats controlled the House, the Senate and the Presidency.

Would having 60 seats in the Senate inoculate the Democrats from obstruction? Not on all measures, no. Would it ensure that the entire platform of progressive legislative proposals would be enacted into law? Again, no. Why? Not every member of the Democratic caucus votes lockstep with the leadership, nor would they be expected to. However, just as a Jeff Merkley would be more likely to vote with the Democrats on the key measures than Gordon Smith, or Tom Udall than Steve Pearce, or Mark Warner than Jim Gilmore, so too would someone like Ronnie Musgrove be more likely to vote with the Democrats than Roger Wicker. There very little question in my mind that this is true. And the more likelies you string together, the greater the likelihood you have that important bills get through the Senate.

It's possible that the Democrats aren't quite able to reach 60 this time, that instead they hit somewhere in the mid- to high-50s in the Senate. At present Warner and Tom Udall seem like close-to-sure things in Virginia and New Mexico; Jeanne Shaheen and Mark Udall seem more likely than not in New Hampshire and Colorado; Musgrove and Mark Begich are both in statistical dead-heats in Mississippi and Alaska. Wins in just these states (not even counting the real possibilities in Oregon, Minnesota, Maine, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Nebraska and Texas) would bring the Democrats to 57 seats.

If it is the case that the Democrats have somewhere in the neighborhood of 57 votes in the Senate, all of the sudden it becomes much more difficult for the Republicans to obstruct -- not impossible, but more difficult. All of the sudden, people like George Voinovich of Ohio and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania -- both of whom have tendencies to defect on votes from time to time, both of whom are up for reelection in 2010 when, if they choose to run again, will fact tough challenges -- as well as Olympia Snowe of Maine (who isn't up in 2010 but nevertheless is willing at times to vote with the Democrats) come on board and the 60-vote threshold is met. Can't keep Joe Lieberman on a particular issue, or Musgrove or someone else? Then twist the arm of Mel Martinez, who will have to face the very evenly divided electorate in Florida in 2010; or Judd Gregg, who is up for reelection in New Hampshire; or even Kit Bond of Missouri or Chuck Grassley of Iowa, or any of the other Republican Senators up for reelection that fall. As you can see, overcoming the 60-vote threshold is a whole lot less arduous with 57 votes than it is with 51 today (which now includes Lieberman).

On a policy level, that's why I'm supporting the Road to 60 effort, and why I've put my money where my mouth is by contributing to the effort. Do I think that having 60 votes in the Senate would be a panacea? Of course not. It's going to be hard work to get a progressive agenda passed in the 111th Congress -- with 51 votes, with 55 votes, with 57 votes or even with 60 votes. But it would be easier with 60 Democratic Senators than it would with appreciably fewer. That's why, even leaving aside the political level (which I've written about before and no doubt will again) it is so important to me to shoot for 60 Democratic Senators this time.

If you agree with me -- or even if you just like the type of candidate that Musgrove or Begich or Kay Hagan or Rick Noriega or Jim Slattery is, or you like what they stand for (like winning a Senate election in Kansas for the first time since 1932, taking back Trent Lott's Senate seat, defeating the longest serving Republican Senator in history, knocking off Liddy Dole or laying down the marker that Texas is no longer a purely red state) -- please make a contribution today. It is extremely important for contributions to come in before the end of the filing period Monday night. So make your voice heard now by heading over to Act Blue.



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Re: Why 60 Matters (none / 0)

I agree with you on this...heh...that doesn't happen that often but hey!

Stoller?

He's spent too much time with Bowers suckin' the Kool-Aid. Must be nice livin' in that cozy world where all things and folks are Progressive.


by Pericles on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:28:54 AM EST

We Have 15 Senators Right Now! (2.00 / 1)

That's it. The FISA bill showed clearly who can be counted on and who will betray us.

We're nowhere NEAR a progressive working majority in Congress, either Senate or House. We don't have progressive leaders, but lobbyist cronies who will push corporate agendas, not ours.

I just got a newsletter for Sen. Salazar in which he touts how wonderful the GI funding bill is, never bothering to mention that the "tradeoff" for that was funding the war for the rest of Bush's term and beyond.

Congress and Obama are not going to end the war unless we force them to any more than Nixon would. It took Congress cutting off funding and that's not even "on the table."

We are at the very beginning. Rather where the conservative movement was in 1968. They were about to elect Nixon, but Nixon was a wild hippie liberal by comparison with today's right-wing. Nixon, for all his criminal behavior would be drummed out of today's Republican party for wanting to "negotiate without preconditions" with Communist China, and Russia, and for signing a bunch of environmental statues, establishing the EPA, etc.

Hopefully things work more quickly than they did in the past and we won't take another 12 years to reach power, the way the right-wing did, having to wait until 1980 with Reagan to seize power.

But to think Obama is going to do anything more than stop the right-wing drift and try to restore traditional Democratic moderate centrism is naive.

We're going to have to attack and beat him up on a host of issues to get anything at all, especially on the war.


by Cugel on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:08:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We have to attack in Congress. (2.00 / 1)

Progressive activists need to preferentially assist progressive candidates. Otherwise there is no reason not to follow the corporate/centrist Dems. That was Stoller's main point, but no one has actually addressed it, even though a lot of people talk about how much they disagree with him.

If we elect a more progressive congress in 2008 and 2010 it will force Obama to be more progressive. He might not be a champion for all progressive ideals, but he certainly won't obstruct good progressive legislation that gets to his desk.


The truth about John McCain.
by Jawis on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:35:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why 60 Matters (2.00 / 1)

Jonathon, thank you for explaining your reasoning behind this, it makes perfect sense.
I'm giving to Jim Slattery, running against Pat Roberts in my own state, and Rick Noriega, running against "Big John" Cornyn in Texas.
Frankly, I just like the thought of Republicans having to spend money to hold onto seats in states like Kansas and Texas!

by skohayes on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:31:18 AM EST

Re: Why 60 Matters (2.00 / 2)

You underestimate or aren't considering fully the quality versus quanity arguments. The point is that in a world of scarce dollars (those of us who are donating money) where should we donate? You do what you want with you money- but others should realize to whom they are donating and why that matters toward legislation. I would argue its not just that you decrease the likelihood of progressive legislation, it that you end its chance fo happening at all. We are right now move from a two party to one party system because the other party (the GOP is so far right) that there isn't a viable alternative for the next few years.  You have defections and conservatives moving to the Democrats- not because they agree idealogically, but because they are seeking a base of power.

Here's why I think quality matters as I described at OpenLeft:

What happens is that conservatives simply will become Democrats, not that you are increasing the number of progressives or progressive policies or changing outcomes.

Here's what someone else said:

"It seems to me as though the Blue Dogs are currently contributing to the progressive infrastructure to the extent that Democratic funds are allocated to progressive goals; however, their growing numbers represent an attempt to hijack the ideological superstructure of the party toward conservative ends."

Parties are not the same thing as ideals or even policies. They are about the aggregation of power. This discussion over quality over quantity is about who gets that power and recognizing how FISA can happen. For that matter, it's about understanding why a multitude of additional conservative agendas will happen over progressive goals even while having the illusion of progressive politicians behind it. It's an illusion because you didn't elect people who were progressives- you elected conservatives. Democrat not only doesn't equal progressive, but it can mean that you choose people who are really Republicans who just aren't able to have power unless they are Democrats.


by bruh3 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:53:18 AM EST

Re: Why 60 Matters (2.00 / 1)

This is so true - witnessed first-hand by me when a Republican ran as a Democrat to become Chair of my County Board of Commissioners in North Carolina.  It was disgusting.  Thank god he's out of their now.


by cameoanne on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 11:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why 60 Matters (none / 0)

PS

In addition, it should be made clear that just because you have a big tent in a party doesn't mean that one segment of the party or another isn't seeking control. The point is that right now the conservative Democrats are in a position to control the party while progressives because they were focused on being an ATM will not have their due influence. This is about building that influence. Again, with scarce dollars, and for those who care about not just electing Democrats, but the undelrying policies, it's a big deal.


by bruh3 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:02:00 AM EST

Re: Why 60 Matters (none / 0)

He also points to Tom Coburn, who he calls a "liberal,"

You're totally misreading this.  When he says "liberal Tom Coburn" he clearly means a liberal who does what Tom Coburn does to bottle up the opposition's bills.


by aaronetc on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:17:24 AM EST

Thanks! (2.00 / 1)

That stuck out like a sore thumb to me. It really jaded the rest of my reading of the article since Jonathon so obviously didn't even get the reference to Coburn.

Jonathon sets up a straw man of Matt's argument and then beats the crap out of it. Matt never argued that getting 60 votes wouldn't be beneficial, and that's all this post talks about. Do you really think Matt Stoller doesn't understand that 60 Democratic Senators would be a good thing? Also, do you see a path to 60 that doesn't include Merkley or Allen or Tom Udall or even Franken?

It's a question of priorities. As a progressive, where should I spend my time and resources. Matt's point is we should preferentially focus our resources to elect Senators who will support a progressive agenda. If progressives continue to blindly support all Democrats, then why shouldn't they move to the center to get that sweet corporate cash, since the progressive activist base of the party will still throw money at them?


The truth about John McCain.
by Jawis on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:24:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why 60 Matters (none / 0)

agreeing with aaronetc...nowhere do i see Tom Coburn called a liberal.
more careful reading please!
The sleep of reason begets monsters. -- Francisco Jose de Goya
by joe in oklahoma on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:10:06 PM EST

Re: Why 60 Matters (2.00 / 1)

I have in the past and will continue to argue that having 60 is actually a bad thing.  The magic number is somewhere around 57 in my estimation.

Why?  With super majorities come expectations of achievement and responsibility from the general voting public that do not have an intimate understanding of how the Senate (or House) work.  Meaning, it will be easy to blame the Democratic Party as a whole for any failure, real or perceived.  The opposition will even be able to fabricate failures and tie the Democratic Majority to natural (and unnatural) disasters, be it through failure to be properly prepared, poor response, whatever.

Quality is thus far more important than quantity, and if you have not learned that watching the Republican's kick our ass in the Senate with less seats over the past few years, you may want to look back again.

All that said, we must, absolutely MUST compete for every seat, every time.  We must make sure there is no corner of America where the Republican propaganda message is unchecked.  We must make sure that Democrats are standing up and making the argument for Democratic values in every single town, city, village, and county.

The piece that we often neglect is quality control of our own members/nominees/incumbents, and that is a place for us to step up the game and fight the 'natural corruption' of DC from infecting our incumbents.

Every Democrat, from red or blue district, from urban or rural area, must be willing to stand up and make an argument for every vote they cast, every position they take.  We must demand that, we must not allow them to bathe us in liberal platitudes shirk off into the darkness, cash in on PAC/Lobbyist money, and quietly vote against us.  If they vote against us, they have to defend that position, and if they do, if they can make an argument of logic, intelligence and reason as to why they voted as they did, I'm ok with that.  Ideally they should stand up and present their position BEFORE any votes are cast, like Joe Biden and Chris Dodd did last spring during the war spending bill debate, each presenting strong arguments on opposing votes, urging their colleagues to join them.

Of course there is a neglected piece of this discussion.  Leadership.  No matter how many Senators we have, no matter how many of them are great progressives, it won't matter if our leadership is not with us.  The current Senate Majority Leader honors Tom Coburn's holds without question, the holds of his fellow Democrats have several times been ignored, allowing FISA Immunity legislation to move forward.

So in the end I will work to help get as many good Democrats elected to the US Senate, House and Presidency as I possibly can, I'm not going to count and say "oh, we've exceeded our targets" and cut someone off.  But I am going to work to get BETTER Democrats in those seats and focus on having 57 fantastic liberal/progressive Senators who will stand up and make the argument.  57 Democrats who will stand up for each other when the Right Wing Spin Machine tries to smear one of their own, 57 Democratic Senators who will stand up against fear mongering and corruption.

As for super majorities - if you have 57 Senators on your side, standing up and making an argument, and they can't get the support of 3 members of the other party, something is very wrong.  There should be some "bi-partisanship" in the legislative process, some dissenting minds coming together to find a better solution, to foresee potential problems a legislation may cause and take steps to correct it before the legislation is passed.

Bullying the way to what they want is part of what has made the Republican Brand so tainted, we need to be better than that.  To set the example of how  the majority should behave.


by mp on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:37:57 PM EST

Filibusters will block progressive legislation (none / 0)

It all comes down to the simple point that the Senate Republicans' only (legitimate) legislative tool will be the Filibuster. In 2009, the Republicans will be completely out of power, much like Democrats in 2005. The rules in Washington in 2009 will be vastly different from the rules of today.

The filibuster is the only tool the American people and the Washington media will view as valid. Tom Coburn being batshit crazy isn't a legitimate technique for a party completely in the minority. Coburn's antics are acceptable now to the Republican leadership because he's essentially vetoing bills and saving Bush some face.

Republicans will filibuster the progressive change we want to see happen, and getting more Democratic butts in those seats in Congress (both in the Senate and the House) is our main offense against the filibuster.

MyDD and Kos are right. Wait for 2010 for the ideological war, not now. We haven't even had the chance to pass the legislation we truly want to.


Leftmost Bit
by Luigi Montanez on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 12:55:31 PM EST

No one is arguing against that. (none / 0)

Jonathan set up a complete straw man. No one is saying that getting 60 Democratic Senators would not be beneficial. It's a discussion about resource priorities that no one seems to want to engage in. Should progressives preferentially spend their resources to elect progressive candidates (e.g., Allen and Merkley) or should they spread the love to all competitive senate races.

Frankly, it's hard to get to 60 without electing the few progressive candidates, so I don't see why people keep arguing that Stoller is wrong. No one has even addressed the point he is making yet.

Quite frankly, I agree with him because if progressives don't preferentially volunteer for and donate to progressive candidates then why should anyone pay attention to us? They'll only view us as an ATM if we choose to act like one.


The truth about John McCain.
by Jawis on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:15:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No one is arguing against that. (2.00 / 1)

Jawis is right -- this isn't about how many D Senators do we want; its how many can we afford to fund to be competitive? Spreading money around to many different candidates is a good strategy early on, to ensure a competitive field across the board and make them play defense even where they'll win -- but as the election gets closer, you've got to be able to concentrate your energy on a key target of opportunity.

Case in point == Webb in VA in 06. If all the money had been spread around to marginal Dem sen candidates, there hadn't been a concentrated effort to get his seat in play in September, and Allen would have easily recovered and won.

As much as I'm a supporter of the large-base-of-small-donors strategy for a variety of reasons, I fear that some Dems have come up with the idea that we have unlimited resources. Everyone seems to presume that all Dems will raise money from small donors at the rate Obama did in the spring, but it could be that we will see, esp in a recession, donor fatigue among small donors. I worry about downballot Dems in very Democratic races who might not be able to get the resources they need to win even-money races if there is a lot of effort put into long-shots.


by desmoulins on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:06:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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