Nevada Caucus rules

Several times people have asked about the rules for the NV caucus, so I'll try to provide a quick explanation here. (I'm not speaking with any authority, though I have read the rules entirely and been trained as a temporary precinct chair. I'm also one of the few thousand people in the state who has attended a precinct caucus before, though the rules are slightly different this year.)

In short, its a lot like Iowa. The NSDP used the Iowa Democratic party rules as a departure point.

The crucial differences are

1. Participants will use preference cards, which means there will be a paper trail. Its not clear to me they will be tabulated but if there is any concern about procedures (since all the temp pct chairs are new, this is sure to happen), there will be a back-up.

2. Members of viable groups at the end of the first allignment cannot move to other groups. This will prevent precinct captains of viable groups from moving supporters to other groups to try to manipulate the delegate count. However, members of non-viable groups can combine or reallign.

3. A series of "at-large" precincts are scheduled to be held near the Strip properties for workers who are on their shifts Saturday . However, the last I heard, the companies had not agreed to let workers take extended breaks to participate, and since the shift change is at noon, its not clear whether those coming off will be allowed to leave early or those coming on will be allowed to arrive late on Saturday. (With Culinary now backing Obama and Clinton having support among some management executives, such as MGM/Mirage VP for personnel, there may be some interesting behind-the-scenes tussles as this gets worked out in the next 10 days.)

There are just over 1700 precincts in Nevada, of which about 1000 are in Clark County. Collectively, about 10,000 county convention delegates will be elected on the 19th, so the ratio of voter to delegate will be much, much lower in NV than Iowa. (For instance, my precinct has about 600 registered Dems of whom about 250 have a consistent primary voting history; we will elect 14 delegates).

One of the most important procedural questions is whether or not the temp precinct chairs will a) all show up b) know what they are doing and c) be challenged by supporters of other candidates. Because of the relatively lower # of activists in the state compared with Iowa, almost every temp pct chair is also a precinct captain for one or another campaign. This has already led to some complaints (by the Obama campaign) to the state party, and there is an expectation among a lot of people I know who are both temp chairs and pct captains that the Clinton forces will challenge the election of temp chairs as permanent chairs.
That might be paranoia or it could be an indication that the proceedings may not run as smoothly as in Iowa.

I'll try to post another diary later in the week about what I think is happening on the ground.



Display:


Re: Nevada Caucus rules (2.00 / 2)

I expect to see at least a 9-part series on this. :)


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 02:14:52 PM EST

Re: Nevada Caucus rules (none / 0)

I assume that your second enumerated point would remove the likelihood of "deals" between campaigns. However, do you have any insights concerning whether precinct captains or higher campaign ops will be instrumental in directing second-choice votes of supporters in the event of non-viability?  Also, do you have any feelings about whom Edwards' and Richardsons' supporters are likely to support as second-choice (assuming they are not pushed in any direction).  


by DPW on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 02:26:18 PM EST

Re: Nevada Caucus rules (none / 0)

Hard to say given the events of the last 5 days. At this point I still think both will be viable in a lot of precincts. But as I've written before, I think the general tendency will be towards an Anyone but Clinton alliance.


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 02:45:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nevada Caucus rules (none / 0)

Very informative thanks


by MassEyesandEars on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 02:31:44 PM EST

Re: Nevada Caucus rules (2.00 / 1)

A caucus makes no sense except to limit participation.  Only certain people can take out work at a certain time and go caucus.

If you are an hourly worker, tough luck.  That is most of the economy nowadays.

In the future candidates who appeal to average americans should fight these rules.

Union members get paid from either comp time, personal days, or whatever.

Other workers  in the service industry are out of luck.


by yellowdem1129 on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:43:42 PM EST

Re: Nevada Caucus rules (none / 0)

I agree with you about the inherent unfairness fo the caucus rules esp with respect to the "no show, out of luck" aspect.

However, the upside of the caucus, esp for us here in NV, is that for the first time, large #s of volunteers/ activists are learning what precincts are and getting to know other activists in their precincts. Even as the grassroots engagement has grown over the past few cycles, most volunteers were simply sent to phone bank or canvass wherever the field director needed them.

I had some pretty heated arguments in 04 and 06 with party field staffers about this, as the election approached they wanted me to go canvass elsewhere and basically give up the local knowledge I and some terrific neighborhood volunteers had developed of our own precincts. In each cycle, we found field staff who got it.

I think after this is over, there will be many, many people who know their own turf for the first time, and this would not have happened with a straight primary.


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 06:45:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes, there's no question (none / 0)

that caucuses build the party more than primaries. As I've written, one party hack I know has argued persuasively that Democrats would be in a stronger position nationwide if every state had caucuses.

It forces the party to identify and cultivate support in every precinct.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 08:25:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like these rules (none / 0)

Especially allowing only supporters of non-viable candidates to realign. It wouldn't eliminate the delegate counts that distort the level of support each candidate has, but it would reduce that problem.

Today I was talking to a woman I know who's from California and attended her caucus for the first time. She knew nothing about the system going in. She didn't realize the delegate count was the number that matters. She didn't even realize you had to go stand in a corner and be counted.

She was furious about the outcome in her precinct. They had 288 caucus-goers and assigned 4 delegates, with 44 people needed for viability. She was in the Obama group, which had more than 120 people. Clinton and Edwards were also viable, and Richardson had about 25 people.

Of course, the Clinton and Edwards groups sent over enough people to make Richardson viable, leading to each candidate getting 1 delegate, even though Obama had more than double the number Richardson had, and substantially more than Clinton or Edwards had.

As I understand it, the Nevada caucus rules would force Richardson's group to realign, leading to a likely outcome of 2 delegates for Obama, 1 for Clinton, 1 for Edwards.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:56:22 PM EST

Re: I like these rules (none / 0)

This is the sort of gamesmanship you and I were discussing in your last diary.  As a matter of "game theory," the rules should try to avoid creating a situation where you can come out ahead in the big picture by giving away voters to someone else.

I think the Iowa rules are set up with the assumption that people show up with a "preference" rather than an actual choice.  In reality, I'm pretty sure there aren't many people who take the time to caucus and then get legitimately talked out of their first choice once they show up, which would be the only reason to let supporters of viable candidates change their mind.

What percentage of the people who show up to caucus do you think are actually amenable to being persuaded into a different first choice?  I bet the answer is pretty low.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 06:03:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

low single-digit percentage (none / 0)

Although I've talked to a few friends this week who told me they were still undecided as they walked in the room on caucus night. This year that was a problem for some people who really liked more than one candidate. They wanted to wait and see which candidate "needed" them more to be viable.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 06:18:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like these rules (none / 0)

Not entirely, since anyone can reallign prior to the end of the first 15 minute interval. Given that we expect fewer people at most of our precinct caucuses, and that there will be fewer candidates represented next Saturday, it would be relatively easy for a shrewd precinct captain to count up the supporters in each corner and move people during the first reallignment to have the same effect.

I expect that because of the fewer candidates and lower turnout, many precincts won't have a 2nd reallignment.


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 06:08:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

good point (none / 0)

in the precinct I was talking about, I'm sure the Edwards and Clinton precinct captains realized immediately what the situation was.

Counting delegates instead of raw numbers is bound to create distortions even without this kind of gamesmanship. A different friend was in a precinct that assigned 3 delegate and had 207 caucus-goers. The viability threshold was 35 people. Obama had more than half the voters in the precinct, but Clinton and Edwards were both viable, so each candidate ended up with one delegate.

The Obama and Clinton people were trying to say Obama should get 2 delegates and Clinton 1, but the Edwards precinct captain stood his ground and insisted that they call the state Democratic Party. The person with the state party confirmed that Edwards should get a delegate based on his group of 42 supporters.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 06:21:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you have a picnic in Iowa (2.00 / 1)

compared to trying to explain to Nevadans how a caucus works.  No tradition, no media attention, extremely limited potential caucus-goer engagement in the process.

I think too many campaign volunteers/staff get tripped up and confuse people by trying to explain the math and strategy of the caucus instead of just saying: you come to the caucus location, sign in, go to your candidate group and listen to your precinct captain. If you want to know more, let me know and I will tell you.


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 06:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you have a picnic in Iowa (2.00 / 1)

Mboehm, I think you're right on that organizers seem to be obsessed with caucus math (no doubt a legacy of trainin programs designed in Iowa where people are familiar with basic rules). On the other hand, I don't like the "just show up and stand where we tell you" approach that some are taking (check out the Clinton campaign's lit) -- the benefit of the caucus is that it should encourage people to engage with the process and the party rather than experience the election as isolated and passive.


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 06:40:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like these rules (none / 0)

Yes, That's it.  My problem with this is that you can be undecided in the first round.  BUT, If the undecideds reach the viability threshold, poof you don't get to realign to your second choice.  A lot of people don't get that nuance.  


by NvDem on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 01:36:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nevada Caucus rules (none / 0)

And these stupid causus decide our presidents?

What great democracy!


by pate on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:12:33 PM EST

Re: Nevada Caucus rules (2.00 / 1)

You should go and try one; I thought it was terrific.


by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:37:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nevada Caucus rules (none / 0)

get rid of the caucuses! get rid of Iowa, in particular, but also this one -- let the people decide.


by CalDem on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:17:51 PM EST

didn't people attend the iowa caucus? (none / 0)

Didn't they get to decide?  I am not convinced that a presidential primary is any better than a caucus.

Of course, you could contact the DNC and see if they would change their rules for nominating a presidential candidate.

Before caucuses and primaries, the party establishment would get together at a national convention and just pick someone to run.


d
by d on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:53:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nevada Caucus rules (none / 0)

You're saying that it "might not run as smoothly as iowa?"  Aw sheesh, we're going to be in for a long night.

I can speak from experience in 4 caucuses in Iowa that this is a really bad process, and should just be either a primary or an extended straw poll.  


by IowaCubs on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 03:37:27 PM EST


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