NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned

The presidential campaign has moved on from NV and I've had a couple of days to restore some order in my house (though the back seat of my car is still full of Edwards signs). I though I'd take the opportunity to thank Jerome and Todd again for inviting me to write some stories about my experiences here and to offer a few thoughts on the fallout here in NV (I'll leave the implications for the national race to others).

First and foremost, the stories of chaotic, disfunctional precincts continue to circulate. I wrote that my precinct caucus ran smoothly but 3 days later, I've heard from enough people to conclude that at least in Clark County, this was not the norm. One of the problems is that in many cases, temporary precinct chairs did not know what they were doing or in some cases did not show up at all. I've heard of cases where precincts did not follow the rules concerning allignment and reallignment, where precincts meeting at the same site spontaneously combined their voters and delegates, and most alarmingly, a case of two precincts in the predominantly African-American westside where no precinct chairs showed up, no state party staff arrived to pick up the slack, and apparently, no caucus took place.

This situation was easily anticipated. Because of the wide disparity of population density in different parts of Nevada, we have a larger number of precincts than Iowa, yet many fewer political activists that the state party could recruit. I had been impressed when the state party announced it had captains for all 1754 precincts, but it now appears that this was not the case. Moreover, because of the lack of density among activists, almost every temporary precinct chair was also a precinct captain or active supporter of one or another campaign -- and in my experience, mostly of the Clinton campaign.

Therein lies the crucial debate that has been taking place among activists since Saturday. Did the Clinton campaign, by instructing its precinct captains to arrive at sites several hours before the temporary chairs were scheduled to be there, and by instructing precinct captains to put up a wall of signs (both of which were explicit violations of state party rules that campaigns had been reminded of the week prior to the caucus) intentionally plan to create a hostile environment for voters? Did the Clinton campaign (which very effectively mobilized its supporters to arrive early), by instructing its  precinct captains to demand that the doors be closed at 11:30 (again, contrary to state party instructions given to precinct captains and to each campaign the week before the caucus) intend to exclude voters more likely to support another candidate? And if so, does this amount to a manipulation of the process?

My view is that the Clinton campaign can't be faulted for performing well. They took advantage of their longer and more established relationship with their supporters, and of their extensive resources, to expand their universe from an estimated 30,000 to an estiamted 60,000 supporters in the month prior to the election (as reported by the LV Sun on Sunday) and then made a massive number of voter ID and turnout calls in the week prior to the election to get those supporters to the polls, early and ready. They also took advantage of what is clearly the most (and perhaps only) democratic part of the caucus rules -- same day registration -- to urge a large number of voters not registered Ds to the polls. (By contrast, Edwards never looked beyond the universe of those with a record of voting in Democratic primaries. )

I believe that the fault for the confusion on Saturday lies with the state party that did not reinforce very well what it asked of temporary precinct chairs at the training -- that they not wear or place campaign materials at the sign-in tables; that they  not allow voters into the caucus room until 11 am; that they allow only one sign per campaign; and that they prepare carefully to run the meetings. AT the same time, there had to be a lot of people in the state party, and in the Clinton campaign, who knew that the Clinton precinct captains were receiving instructions that diverged from, even contradicted, the instructions to temporary precinct chairs. Those that looked the other way, I believe, failed the party, and the consequence was the confusion on Saturday. I hope that the frustration they generated among precinct-level activists fades quickly and won't result in resentment against the state party. Or more precisely, I hope that the frustration encourages them to engage with the state party and push for a more transparent, responsive party -- rather than to disengage and turn off from political activism.

To her credit, state Senator Dina Titus, one of Clinton's co-chairs and one of Nevada's DNC members, yesterday announced that in response to the frustration of so many Democrats with the process Saturday, the caucuses could not be considered a success and announced she would introduce legislation for the state to hold a presidential primary in four years.

As is well known, the Obama campaign claimed on Saturday that this amounted to voter intimidation, and after the caucus, the Obama campaign sent out an email to every address it had asking for people to send in stories of bad caucus experiences. I have to confess to bewilderment and vexation at Obama's campaign and at his supporters for this claim. The Obama campaign simply did not prepare its people very well (at least in my experience) for not caucus day. I knew going in that Edwards would have trouble because we would not have resources for visibility at most precincts, for staffers to be observers at precincts, for driving supporters to the caucus sites when they needed rides, or for multiple contacts of voters to ensure our people turned out. (Our long-standing precinct captains were, in reports I've heard, the best trained of any campaign, but in many precincts we, like Obama and Clinton, had late recruits who did not know the process.)

I expected that Obama's campaign, with its vast resources, would have all of the above. But they simply did not. Despite repeatedly assuring the media all year that their precinct captains had "climbed the ladder" as volunteers to prove their commitment, in fact almost all the Obama precinct captains I know were late fill-ins who never became that familiar with either the caucus process or tactics. When I heard some of my friends and colleagues who supported Obama complaining today of unfairness, I felt even more the frustration I felt watching the debate last night -- if only our side had the money, media, and union muscle they had enjoyed, we would have known what to do with it. At least I hope so.

The fall-out from the caucus will begin to be felt in 2 weeks, when the state central committee meets on Feb 9, and then certainly at the county conventions on Feb 23. I suspect that any lasting rancor will fade quickly, and I continue to hope that the large number of new activists recruited by the party, and each of the campaigns, will greatly help the Democratic cause in NV in the fall and beyond.

I'm sure some of what I wrote above will generate a response, so to be clear, I am only stating what I've heard personally not a systematic or researched assessment of the caucuses. And my personal view is that the flaws were the results of a state party that had a great deal of ground to cover in a short time, and as a result, could not develop a cadre of party leaders at the precinct level independent of campaign activists. And finally, I cannot offer any assessment of claims of fraud, intimidation or manipulation but I do feel that the story of the day has to be that the Clinton campaign achieved a level of organization that none of the others, whatever their resources, came close to.



Display:


Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

Thanks for the report.   Bravo Zulu.


by InigoMontoya on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:47:34 PM EST

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

To her credit, state Senator Dina Titus, one of Clinton's co-chairs and one of Nevada's DNC members, yesterday announced that in response to the frustration of so many Democrats with the process Saturday, the caucuses could not be considered a success and announced she would introduce legislation for the state to hold a presidential primary in four years.

Senator Clinton called for replacing the caucus system with more inclusive primaries even before leaving Nevada on Saturday after her win. She discussed the way caucuses disenfranchise voters at her airport press conference before flying to St. Louis. Clinton is very concerned that the causus system disenfranchises military personnel overseas, working mothers, and so many others who can't arrange their schedule to be at a caucus during one specific hour of one specific day.


by hwc on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:48:52 PM EST

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

I agree with all of that. I feel really frustrated on behalf of not just working mothers but all sorts of working people who did everything that can be expected of them as citizens -- paid attention, made a decision -- but could not vote because they could not afford to take time off from work to vote.

The difference between Clinton's statement and Titus's action is that Titus is going against the party line and actually proposing a change. I hope that Senator Clinton will lend her support in the future to this change, even though other prominent NV democrats who supported her do not want to change the system.

I'd also like to see the Democratic party, whomever our nominee is, actively support same-day registration on a national basis.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:53:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

The difference between Clinton's statement and Titus's action is that Titus is going against the party line and actually proposing a change. I hope that Senator Clinton will lend her support in the future to this change, even though other prominent NV democrats who supported her do not want to change the system.

I guess that depends on who controls the party line. I am very confident that if Clinton gets the nomination and controls the DNC, you will see the Party make a major push to eliminate caucuses and the disenfranchisement of so many voters.

Remember, Clinton's very first paid political job was registering voters in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas for the George McGovern campaign.


by hwc on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:57:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

I am very confident that if Clinton gets the nomination and controls the DNC, you will see the Party make a major push to eliminate caucuses and the disenfranchisement of so many voters.

I hope so. But during the past 12 years, when close Clinton allies have headed the party, there has been no effort to do so.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:59:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

It would never occur to the men running the DNC. They had wives to watch the kids while the men go caucus.


by hwc on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:06:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

for what it's worth (2.00 / 0)

Several women have chaired the Iowa Democratic Party in the past 20 years, and several have held the number two position in the state as well.

New Hampshire's state law saying they have to be the first primary is the main reason why Iowa still has caucuses.

Of course, the Clintons would probably be more than happy to preserve NH's first-in-the-nation status. If they could also block Iowa from holding caucuses, so much the better from the Clinton perspective.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:11:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

Is that a serious comment?


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

also women outnumbered men (none / 0)

at the 2004 Iowa caucuses, and at this year's caucuses.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:11:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: also women outnumbered men (none / 0)

Here in NV, it was 59% women, 51% men. Thats pretty impressive.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: also women outnumbered men (2.00 / 1)

That IS impressive. Talk about improving turnout.

Kidding, kidding. Thanks for your report. It was very educational.


by OrangeFur on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:01:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 59% vs 51% (none / 0)

Doesn't that add up to 120% ?
Or am I interpreting that wrong?
by del on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:23:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 59% vs 51% (none / 0)

Sorry I meant 59-41.

Then again, given how teh caucuses went, we could well have had 110% turnout.


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:43:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

Be aware that this is a decision of the state parties, not the federal parties.

Clinton, Obama, Harry Reid can all pipe in but it is up to the state parties to implement the changes.


by kristoph on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:00:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

If I recall, the DNC has the power to seat or not seat delegates from states that do not meet the national rules.


by hwc on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:05:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

you will see the Party make a major push to eliminate caucuses and the disenfranchisement of so many voters.

I hope for primaries over caucuses as well.


by killjoy on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:04:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

The Obama campaign is the biggest bunch of crybabies I've ever seen. They should just shut up until their candidate has the decency to make a gracious statement congratulating the winner of the Nevada caucus. I've never seen such a petulant poor loser.


by hwc on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:50:29 PM EST

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

THats precisely the sort of unnecessarily inflammatory statement that I am frustrated with the Obama campaign for making. If anything, I'd like to think my diaries contributed to raising the tone a bit but this comment suggests otherwise.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:55:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

All he has to do is the same thing that politicians have done for centuries: graciously congratulate the winner.

Instead, we get charges of racism in New Hampshire. Charges of voter suppression in Nevada. And, not even a consession.

Sorry if being angry about that disrupts the tone, but good lord, how can we have a "new kind of politics" with that kind of poor sportsmanship?


by hwc on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

I just wrote a diary about how the Clinton campaign gave its prct captains instructions that it knew contravened the rules set by the party. Then I credited the Clinton campaign for its preparation. I don't see how I could agree that "sportsmanship" is relevant to this discussion.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:01:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (2.00 / 2)

Great post, as always.

Your on the ground reports have been a terrific addition and always informative.


by ChrisR on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:53:59 PM EST

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (2.00 / 0)

I've seen any number of comments to the effect that some non-Clinton precinct captains also believed the doors closed at 11:30, so I'm left with the impression that there were legitimate grounds for confusion on that point.

On the wider issue, there's of course nothing wrong with a legitimate discussion about what worked and didn't work, but I really deplore all the accusations of fraud and misconduct that have beset this year's primary process.

Daily Kos is still chock full of diaries about how Hillary stole Nevada with Rove-like intimidation tactics.  I think someone saw her personally wheeling corpses from the morgue to the caucus site.

Meanwhile, Clinton supporters (the same people who call Obama supporters "crybabies" for complaining about the above) still make snide comments about how Obama supposedly won Iowa by busing kids in from Illinois.

And if they hadn't done a recount in New Hampshire, we'd still be hearing all the cries of DIEBOLD! to this day.

I don't know what to say about all this other than that it's really degrading.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:54:49 PM EST

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

some non-Clinton precinct captains also believed the doors closed at 11:30, so I'm left with the impression that there were legitimate grounds for confusion on that point.

Yes, absolutely.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:56:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

In the original instructions given to temp pct chairs, they were told that only those in line at 11:30 should be able to vote. But that was modified at the pct captain trainings, as far back as November, to say that anyone who arrived before noon  should be allowed to participate. According to the state party, 12:00 was also reiterated in a memo to each campaign the week before the caucus.

Yet, certainly, people who hold leadership positions in the state party were aware that the Clinton pct captains were being told to demand the doors be closed at 11:30.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:58:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

troubling (none / 0)

The temporary precinct chair in our precinct was a co-captain for Clinton, but she was scrupulously fair about enforcing the rules for all candidates. Clinton did have a bunch of yard signs outside the caucus location, but inside it was strictly one sign on the wall for each candidate.

Also, our precinct chair went out of her way to recruit an Edwards supporter to be the precinct secretary (who does the numbers on the calculator and records the results).

It's too bad if the Clinton campaign was instructing its precinct captains who were also precinct chairs to go against the state party's rules.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: troubling (none / 0)

The word "nice" comes to mind for some reason, I dunno why...


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:21:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (2.00 / 1)

Nobody from the Clinton campaign has complained about Iowa. They graciously congratulated the winner. Picked themselves up. Dusted themselves off. And moved on to the next one in New Hampshire. There was no whining.


by hwc on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:03:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

but Clinton supporters (2.00 / 0)

including some regular commenters on this site, have repeatedly insinuated that Obama won Iowa by busing in supporters from Illinois.

If some Illinois residents caucused for Obama--and that may have happened in certain counties--they were not numerous enough to have affected the overall outcome in Iowa. Also, there is no proof that such people were "bused in" by the Obama campaign.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:05:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do Not Agree With All Your Deploring (none / 0)

I am not sure I understand exactly what you are deploring, but I think I disagree with some of your deploring.

It is proper, just and desirable for all citizens who have witnessed election law violations, or violations of caucus rules, to bring those violations to the attention of the public. Every person who took the time to truthfully tell their story of the violations they witnessed should be praised, not "deplored."  

Furthermore, it is not appropriate to indiscriminately accuse citizen journalists who are simply reporting the violations that they saw of "sour grapes." Every violation should be made public because that will have the effect of:

a) Providing punishment and accountability for every violation that took place; and

b) Following said punishment and accountability, when combined with the glaring example that violations WERE maximally publicized, deterring future violations.

The alternative, to quietly move on, is no longer acceptable in this day and age. Florida 2000 taught us that the present system is not good enough. In truth, we are reminded again and again, 7 long years after Florida, that we have so much work to do on this front.

Every vote does NOT count, apparently, not even in New Hampshire 2008, where it appears it was acceptable to have mistakes where 50 votes were lost here and there.

Is every vote sacred? Or is every outcome sacred?  

What is the cliche?  If we can put a man on the moon...why can't we devise a system where, in fact, EVERY vote that is cast is counted accurately? I guess tabulating votes fully, completely and accurately IS rocket science. We haven't mastered it yet.


by Demo37 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:19:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do Not Agree With All Your Deploring (none / 0)

I have no problem distinguishing between people who want to engage in a legitimate discussion of things that happened and people who want to drum up resentment against an opposing campaign to undermine their accomplishments.

This diary is an example of the former.  Vague allegations about busloads of students in Iowa are an example of the latter.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:42:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

An "Intention Test" Is Problematic (none / 0)

Fair enough.

However, I would be very wary of placing "intention" as the touchstone or overriding point of inquiry when it comes to evaluating citizen reports.

As I see it, EVERY SINGLE election violation, every single caucus rule violation, should be reported publicly. That is the progressive position.    

In response to such reports, I do not think it is appropriate to immediately question the motives of the people making those reports. All of us should want those reports to be made public.

Assuredly, it is appropriate to question the veracity of any report by any journalist, and to cross examine, so to speak, that journalist. That ability to cross examine a journalist is one of the incredible virtues of journalists, citizen or not, reporting within the blogging format.  And yes, it is appropriate to criticize the spreading of hearsay, rumors, innuendo and rank speculation.

Bottom line though...If we do not keep these important distinctions in mind, if we do not honor them in our writing, we will lose the major benefits that citizen journalists can offer to election integrity.

Let's hear all those reports.  Tell us what you experienced at the polling place, where the votes were counted, and at your caucus site.


by Demo37 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:37:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An "Intention Test" Is Problematic (none / 0)

Every claim should certainly be investigated. I'd like the DNC to solicit such claims and investigate them all, then produce an report prior to the convention.

But anecdotal complaints are too easily twisted to spread malicious narratives. That doesn't help get the truth out, in fact it conceals it under a wave of vague accusations and counter-accusations.


Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 10:21:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Running Things Through Official Channels (none / 0)

In a perfect world, your preference for running things through official channels would seem to make sense.  

However, very painful experiences have taught many of us in the grassroots, netroots and blogosphere that the official channels are no longer sufficient to push for change...including election protection.  

Accordingly, citizen journalists reporting through the blogosphere, as messy and as prone to problems as it can be...is it. We must use this power. The genie is not going back into the bottle.

The blogosphere is essentially the public square of the 21st century (and a massive public square at that) with all the messiness and problems that the public square has always entailed.

As always, the best of us will promote factual reporting, healthy skepticism and reasoned discourse. We are not always going to get it, as human beings are not prone to it...but we must, nevertheless, keep our eyes on the prize and persevere.


by Demo37 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:06:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (2.00 / 1)

I cannot offer any assessment of claims of fraud, intimidation or manipulation but I do feel that the story of the day has to be that the Clinton campaign achieved a level of organization that none of the others, whatever their resources, came close to.

 - If it was a primary Obama would probably have lost by over 10% points .

Obama is going to struggle against Clinton in the west .

NM , AZ , NV , CO , CA .

These are states that he is going to have problems with.


When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line
by lori on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:55:01 PM EST

great post (2.00 / 3)

Regarding this point:

By contrast, Edwards never looked beyond the universe of those with a record of voting in Democratic primaries.

My impression is that the same was true for Iowa.

The Edwards campaign started with the assumption that turnout would be only modestly higher than in past caucus years. They focused their resources on experienced caucus-goers or at least Democrats who were regular primary and general-election voters.

In that sense, it's amazing that more than 70,000 Iowans ended up in the Edwards corner on January 3.

I would like to think that with greater resources, they would have done more to expand the universe of voter contacts, but I am not sure that would be the case. It's possible that campaign strategists would never have embraced the Obama approach.

One big problem for Edwards in Iowa was that the Obama campaign was contacting tens of thousands of people who had never caucused before and who were not hearing much (aside from tv ads) from other candidates. Experienced caucus-goers were bombarded with direct-mail pieces. I wish I'd gotten fewer of those so that resources could have been devoted to more first-time caucus-goers.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:04:13 PM EST

Re: great post (2.00 / 1)

I don't think, if I had been in a position to make the decision and had the resources to do it, I would have advised the Edwards campaign to look more broadly. In fact, I felt a lot of the time that I was talking to a universe that was too broad.

If Edwards had been more visible down the stretch, I'm confident turnout would have been even higher. I think some Edwards supporters in a lot of precincts stayed home.

I don't think the problem for Edwards was that our universe was too small. If anything, it was that we  didn't make enough voter contacts with people in that universe.  


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:11:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A Question About Vegas (none / 0)

Desmoulins, can I ask you whether the Edwards campaign in Vegas used any "social networking strategies" to bolster their caucus numbers?

Or was 90% of your effort voter ID through phone calls and canvassing, then GOTV of ID'd Edwards supporters?


by Demo37 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:25:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Question About Vegas (none / 0)

No, there was a lot of outreach to different constituency groups. Its difficult in Las Vegas, where social capital is something of a scarce commodity.


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:33:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That Is What I Thought (none / 0)

Understood. Definitely understood.  But...

I have a diary in mind on this...but in a nutshell, I have become convinced that there is a major reason why John Edwards had a profoundly diminished chance of winning the Nevada caucuses.  

It had to do with the nuts and bolts of how the Edwards campaign was run there, from day one, 6-9 months ago. I don't want to tip my hand fully until I write the diary.  :)

But...I can tell you that bits and pieces of evidence that I have gathered from sources in both the Obama and Clinton campaigns, and in particular, a recent story at the Huffington Post about Nevada, all these things have educated me, and led me to a pretty startling conclusion about what went very wrong for Edwards in Nevada...and Iowa.  

This old dog has been taught a new "trick," actually, a revolutionary new trick.  IMHO, the Nevada caucuses, as shameful as they were, changed the game, and changed the game dramatically, so much so, that politics will never be the same.  

The Obama and Clinton campaigns know all about this change. The Edwards campaign...not so much.


by Demo37 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:12:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That Is What I Thought (none / 0)

I think its called ....paid advertising?


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 10:39:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Paid Advertising and Targetted Robocalls (none / 0)

Yes, paid advertising...and the vicious robocalls against Edwards...played a dominant role in his defeat.

But neither one of those is sufficient to explain the full magnitude of what happened to Edwards in Nevada...or for that matter in Iowa.  There was a relatively new component at work...


by Demo37 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Paid Advertising and Targetted Robocalls (none / 0)

I'm not aware of robocalls against Edwards in NV. As for other factors, there are plenty adn I look forward to reading your story -- but I will continue to point out that in the final 10 days, when everyone suddenly started to pay attention, that Obama and Clinton put up a lot of tv, radio, mail and visibility, while Edwarsd had none. That cost us supporters among caucus goers who defected and even more importantly, caused a lot of people leaning towards us to stay hoe.

Thats how we dropped from 27% to 12% on caucus day, and caucus math (viability) pushed us to down to 4.


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:56:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

On The Robocalls (none / 0)

I generally agree with respect to media, etc. That was huge.

On the robocalls, my sources in Washoe told me that they received one (or perhaps two) robocalls in the days before the caucuses telling voters not to waste their votes on Edwards since he had no chance. The story I got was that they came from both the Obama and the Clinton campaigns in Washoe.  Of course, the Obama and Clinton campaigns know the truth about what THEY did.

My immediate reaction to these reports was to ask for a rough transcript of the robocalls...but all my sources could do was relate to me the gist of the robocalls.  Hmmm...I put that down on my list of things to investigate more fully, later, since such robocalls could well have been quite significant in their effects.  

However, I soon became quite distracted by what I believe to be the much bigger story...the one that I am alluding to.


by Demo37 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:29:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

Clinton supporters on here sure seem to like to do a lot of whining.


What would LBJ do?
by Socks The Cat on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:05:30 PM EST

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (2.00 / 1)

My cousin caucused for Edwards in Reno and she said a lot of Edwards supporters were persecuted, insulted and booed by members of both sides.


by RDemocrat on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:07:08 AM EST

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

I read reports that Clinton supporters, upon seeing that Edwards needed just a few votes to be viable, graciously switched from Hillary to Edwards just to help his campaign out.  It cost Hillary a delegate, from what I have read.  I can't remember reading about Obama supporters displaying such good-will and charitable thought, especially given that nobody knew what the result would be.  


by georgep on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:34:35 AM EST

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

George, are you seriously suggesting that the Clinton campaign in NV should be described as "gracious," "good-will" and "charitable"?

Look, they did a lot right and I admire and respect them for it. I dont think its a serious assertion to claim that it was "gracious".

By the way, if you read my story about my precinct, the Clinton people wouldn't even move to uncommitted to help me achieve viability, even though it would have denied Obama 2 delegates. Is that because they were so "gracious" to Obama?


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

It is what I have read right here.  Don't shoot the messenger.  That gesture can only be classified as "gracious," they did not have to do what they did to help Edwards achieve viability in that precinct.  If all you are going to point out is what meanies they were and how in retrospect (after thinking it over and "talking to some people") they acted like bullies, perhaps a little bit of perspective is in order.  

I appreciated the caucus series, but if you are going to do the sour-dour thing about the meanie Clinton campaign it is fair to point to the other side of the coin, the reports that showed that you may be a bit off with your remarks painting the picture you do here.  

Also, Obama disappeared without even giving a concession speech or any speech at all for that matter.  I find it amazing you made no mention of that snub from the candidate himself, a gesture that is customary and "gracious" towards the winner, and his many supporters assembled were snubbed, too.   Why not mention something like that?  Would the fact that you caucused for Obama have something to do with that?


by georgep on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV caucus: fallout and lessons learned (none / 0)

Thanks for reading George.


by desmoulins on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:09:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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