NV: the turnout enigma

Less than 100 hours now to the NV caucus and turnout is still a massive question mark, that will determine the outcome. All year, I've felt this will be a low-turnout affair driven by activists combined by whatever campaign had the resources and organization to drag in casual, non-activist supporters. All year, I'd hoped that would be Edwards, with a combination of long-term organization, a strong message, momentum from Iowa, and the support of SEIU and Culinary. All year, I'd presumed that if Obama got those breaks instead, as he did in the end, he'd surge past and win handsomely. And all year, I've presumed that the Clinton support was very soft and would melt away when we entered the final 2 weeks, and people started to focus intensely on the race.

I still have no idea if any of that will prove to be prescient or, as is usually the case, I'm way, way off base. In short, its exciting as all get-out to be in a race that nobody has any clue how its going to go Saturday.

My knowledge is based largely on my experiences organizing, canvassing and calling in my central Las Vegas assembly district which, as I've written earlier, is one with high concentrations of the sorts of demographics that generally determine a Democratic primary: older middle-class white Democrats, working-class latino families, union members (including but Culinary and SEIU but also AFSCME, Teamsters (who represent among others library employees!) NSEA (teachers), and a good does of young professionals -- all of which, of course, are overlapping.

So how does it look on the ground here? Over the weekend, I expected to see the turf crawling with canvassers, but we Edwards folk seemed to have our home ground mostly to ourselves. I encountered one Obama field worker, fresh from Iowa, and saw a lot of Obama lit on doorsteps, plus a bunch of new Obama signs, but frankly didn't pick up a great deal of movement towards Obama.

I encountered a lot of support for Clinton, esp from the demographic groups that tend to support her strongly -- older women in Democratic households, gay men who are not political activists (don't ask me; the activists aren't generally for Hillary), every lesbian I know (its a sizeable constituency in my neighborhood) of any age or socio-economic background, and soft support from a lot of Latino households. I definitely saw some pattern of people in all those categories moving from leaning to seeming more solidly for Clinton -- and there were plenty of fresh Hillary signs up Monday morning.

But what I did not get was a strong sense that they are going to caucus for Clinton. I repeatedly was told that they were for Hillary but not sure to caucus. Because I'm a believer in participation,  I urged them to participate and told them where and when but even that didn't seem to spark a lot of interest among a lot of these people.

I have not, frankly, seen much evidence that the Clinton campaign has at this point the voter ID program to find these people and turn them out. But they are working hard on it -- I got several automated voter ID calls yesterday, some that identified themselves for Clinton, some from a local firm that has done work for groups allied with Clinton, and there is out of state Clinton help arriving in the form of both field organizers and from allied groups (on which more later).

And whatever the origins of the suit (on which a bit more below), its clear that the Clinton campaign surrogates, including the President who defended the suit, yesterday hope the fall-out will be to rile people up and make them feel disenfranchised by the at-large precincts, so they will go vote. All the Clinton surrogates on tv yesterday when asked to comment, all hewed to the line that everyone should get to vote, regardless of whether they belong to a union or not. Those who defended the suit also framed it as a defense of the right to vote of those who could not go to the at large caucus sites. As I type, Ann Lewis is on the radio on behalf of the Clinton campaign and in the same breath, defending the suit and urging people to vote.

Of course, the Obama campaign is doing the same thing in reverse -- using it as  a gift to pitch Culinary members, union members generally, working women, hispanics, african-americans as being targeted by "Clintonite, Rove-like tactics." If you want see this done right, check out Culinary leader D Taylor on Hardball last night. He was on the most watched local TV interview show yesterday with Clark County Party chairman John Hunt and just took Hunts' pants off. I so wish he was out making the case for Edwards. Hell, I wish D Taylor was running for President himself.

If you think by the way I'm making up the stuff about the suit making the Clinton campaign look bad, you are not in this state.

So as in IA and NH, its clear that both sides are trying to gin up turnout as they think it will benefit them. And I have no inkling, in all honesty, who is winning that battle. Tonight's debate, with its focus on black and Hispanic issues, could be the turning point that starts to drive those voters to the caucus for one candidate, though I tend to doubt it (in part because its at 6pm local time, to better suit east-coast tv viewers.)

Edwards -- huge energy among staff and volunteers from the poll showing a three way tie. I always disbelieve polls and I know enough to see that a candidate who is not running ads or sending mail (our household yesterday got 3 pieces from Obama, including an 8 page glossy magazine, and two pieces from Clinton plus another AFSCME mailer for Clinton) is going to have a very hard time remaining competitive. Our canvass efforts to deliver the Edwards policy book -- and again, enough can't be said about the Steelworkers -- are the best we can do. (By the way, the books are marked "Iowa" so I make a lemon from lemonade by telling people, "John Edwards doesn't change what he says in Iowa from what he says here.") Edwards will hold a series of town-hall meetings on Wed and Thursday after the debate.

Now, about the suit. I wrote about this the other day and it upset a few people, but the origins of the suit remain baffling. The case that the caucus system is unfair is a solid one and the problem of those who work Saturdays -- or who are disabled or unwell -- is a massive one. However, the suit doesn't ask for -- as the NSEA President alleges -- provisions to allow school janitors to vote; it asks for the delegate formulas at the at-large sites to revised or for those sites to be suppressed.

The case made in the suit is that the formula used to allocate delegates at regular precincts is 2% of registered Dems in that precinct. They argue that the at-large precincts allocate delegates based on roughly 20% of turnout at the precincts. So they argue that the at-large precincts get 10 times the delegates per voter as regular precincts. But that claim is only valid if all the registered Dems in regular precincts turn out; most estimates are for less than 10% turnout, so that the at-large precincts are likely to have a lower delegate to voter ratio than the regular precincts.

Whats so vexing to me, as a longtime party volunteer, and one who worked for and supported the reform slate that won the Clark County e-board elections last summer, is that the Clark County Democratic chairman and two vice-chairs (none of whom are working for any campaign, as I've explained all along) continue to assert that they are bringing this suit entirely to ensure fairness, but will not answer (one of them literally referred me to their lawyer) either how this suit will make the caucus process more fair or why it was brought now, instead of 3 or 6 months when these rules were approved and drafted, respectively.

Its very clear to me that the individuals who are the lead plaintiffs in the suit are being manipulated. The LV Sun yesterday quoted Dan Hart, a local political consultant, saying he had brought the idea to the NSEA, and Lynn Warne, head of the NSEA, said in a separate interview that they did not bring the suit, they were asked to join it.

But the individuals -- Vicky and John Birkland, Dwayne Chesnut, John Cahill and Patricia Montgomery -- simply lack the political connections and personal resources to engage KKBRF (the law firm representing the plaintiffs -- a firm that generally represents the hotels including in their negotiations with Culinary last year.) Interestingly, as of yesterday, calls were being made to other county party activists asking them to join the suit, appealing to their sense of disenfranchisement by the state party. In short, these individuals named above are either lying to everyone they know including me, which I doubt, or they were manipulated into bringing a suit that Dan Hart hatched and the NSEA or someone else agreed to pay for.

A final note of interest that gives you a sense of how "conflict of interest" is synonymous with "standard operating procedure" in Democratic politics here -- the case is being heard by a judge appointed by ...Bill Clinton and nominated by ... Harry Reid. Update: That judge has recused himself. Thanks Steve M.

So now, having done what the party leadership asked, and encouraged all the Dems in my precinct, whichever candidate they support, to attend the caucus; and since there are good number of strip workers in my precinct (including in my family), encouraged them to sign out for break time (which is very limited and for some requires them to go off the clock; these are not workers who are allowed to come and go from the work area as they please) to attend the at-large sites. Now, they hear that the Democratic party is suing to prevent them from going to those sites. What am I supposed to say when I go back to their next fall and ask them to go vote for the Democratic ticket?

Okay so a final note, which will be of particular interest to dp and GeorgeP. Yesterday afternoon, we got a call from a family friend that a NOW staffer from out of state who was coming to campaign for Hillary had no ride or place to stay. I guess all the Clinton campaign staff couldn't be bothered to pick her up. Since my wife couldn't get away from work, I picked her up at the airport, and she stayed over at our place last night. Since the Edwards organizer already has our guest room, we slept on the sofa. So the moral is, when you're failed by public services (actually you can take  a bus from McCarran) and your employer won't take care of what you need (actually she's off the clock from NOW), who do you call? Edwards Democrats!



Display:


Re: NV: the turnout enigma (2.00 / 2)

Oy vay; huge typo in the 6th paragraph. Meant to say

"What I did not get was a strong sense they would caucus..."


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:38:29 PM EST

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

Can one of the people with authority to do so edit that for me?


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:39:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

You can edit your own diaries.  Just click on "edit".


by markjay on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:46:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

thanks. I never knew that.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:55:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

Great post, thanks for the info.  I hope all of your work for Edwards pay off.


by MassEyesandEars on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:43:23 PM EST

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

Interesting post, reports from the ground are always fascinating. And it is gratifying to hear of such inter-campaign camaraderie.


by souvarine on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:50:40 PM EST

I have a bad feeling (none / 0)

that lawsuit is going to benefit Obama. Stupid of those people not to challenge the rules six months ago, if they had a real grievance. Presumably they were counting on Hillary coasting to the nomination.

Librarians as Teamsters? That's a new one!


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:51:20 PM EST

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (2.00 / 1)

You know with regards to the guy on hardball , he actually looked foolish to me.

After screaming disenfranchisement , matthews asked him if the teachers should be allowed to vote close to where they work too and the guy started stumbling  and finally said he didn't know.

For a guy that was screaming disenfranchisement all through the interview you would think that would be an easy answer for him.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:54:33 PM EST

but don't teachers (none / 0)

generally have the day off on Saturday?

I thought the point of the at-large precincts was to help the huge number of shift workers on the Las Vegas strip. Saturday is a busy day there.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:02:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: but don't teachers (none / 0)

She said she was concerned about Clark County School District janitors, who will be working at the caucus sites that are in schools. I didn't know the NSEA represented janitors.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:18:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lori (none / 0)

 The guy on hardball for the Culinary union was great.  He wasn't screaming - very calm.  He answered Matthews question very well - The question was stupid - He wasn't the guy who wrote the rules the Hillary people who are now challenging it were.  One thing he said of note was that nobody out there was fooled by Hillary trying to distance herself for the suit.


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:31:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

I would note that the Clinton-appointed judge who was originally scheduled to hear the case has recused himself and a new, GWB-appointed judge has been assigned.

I'm not sure it matters as the federal courts are relatively free of shenanigans in these matters.

I've just taken a look at the court papers online and I'll have more to say about the lawsuit when I get back from lunch, but food must be the first priority.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:58:03 PM EST

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

thanks for the update and I look forward to your comment on it.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:58:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (2.00 / 1)

I looked at the docket since the federal courts have everything available online.  The plaintiffs have filed an emergency request for an injunction against the at-large caucuses, but it doesn't look like a hearing date has been set yet.  Obviously there's not much time for that.

Strictly as an off-the-cuff reaction, I really see no way that the court will enjoin the at-large caucuses from taking place.  Among other things, one of the legal requirements for seeking an injunction is that you have to act in a timely fashion.  You can't just wait for six months and file something at the last minute.  I don't see anything in the papers that looks like a legitimate excuse for why they waited so long, and that's going to be a big issue for the court.

There are a lot of esoteric issues raised in this lawsuit about Nevada election law, and it's entirely possible the plaintiffs have some sort of valid point about the allocation scheme and how delegates from the at-large caucuses will be awarded compared to delegates from other caucuses.  Having an opinion on that issue is way above my pay grade, although keep in mind that the predictive value of this entire comment is worth exactly what you paid for it.

What I see as a likely outcome is that the court will allow the caucuses to go forward as planned, but will reserve ruling on the issue of whether the allocation system is legally appropriate.  In other words, the caucus still happens, but it's possible next week that the court will say "the at-large precincts shouldn't have been given so much wait, I'm ordering you to revise the allocation scheme as follows."  I guess I'd rank the possible outcomes as follows:

1. Court declines to enjoin the caucuses, but reserves its ruling on the allocation issue for later, and decides at some point after the caucuses that everything was fine;

2. Court declines to enjoin the caucuses, but reserves its ruling on the allocation issue for later, and decides at some point after the caucuses that the delegates need to be allocated differently;

3. Court declines to enjoin the caucuses and dismisses the entire thing out of hand;

4. Court grants an injunction against the at-large caucuses and allows the rest of the caucuses to go forward as scheduled, with everyone caucusing either in their home precinct or nowhere.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

The hearing is set for THurs 11am.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:26:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

I hear (although IANAL) that the suit principally focuses on the allocation scheme which was only finalized (or at least announced) last week.

Can you speak to that at all? Will it have an impact?  


by kristoph on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:08:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

It's unclear to me from the court documents exactly when the allocation scheme was finalized or what was known about it prior to last week.

Assuming no one knew the deal prior to last week, that would of course be a good excuse for waiting until the last minute.  But still, I think the court would be inclined towards the less drastic remedy of letting the election go forward, and then sorting out the issues regarding the allocation scheme later.  We all know that enjoining the at-large caucuses will mean some voters won't get the opportunity to vote, and I think any court would be disinclined to grant such a drastic remedy.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:26:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

Thats not made clear in the suit though the plaintiffs have been telling people thats the case. I don't understand since the formulae for calculating at-large precinct delegates was included in the Delegate selection plan drafted 6 months ago, approved by the NSDP, DNC, all the campaigns and published in the website last October (its still there).


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (2.00 / 1)

You sir, are a true credit to your candidate, you party, and your nation.

Also your diaries are exceptionally informative. Thank you very much.


by kristoph on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:58:10 PM EST

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

I am a big fan of JRE -but I love your posts. I like your style. But I'm biased so take what you will from this.

Good Luck! and Good Luck and too much work to JRE.

I urge readers to commit to John now, it'll look silly when he wins and you weren't on board.

;-)


by inexile on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:58:19 PM EST

Re: Gay support for Hillary (none / 0)

Had it not been for McClurkin, Obama probably would have picked up most of the GLBT support from both activists and non-activists.  Hillary picked up a lot of GLBT support because of that.  The reason she doesn't have a lock on the hard core activists, though, is that too many of us remember all too well how badly Bill Clinton failed us on this issue.  DOMA was an utter disgrace and Don't Ask Don't Tell was a well-intended failure at best.


Sean Robertson
by Sean Robertson on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:59:47 PM EST

I don't know how the activists split (2.00 / 1)

in Iowa, but I know of quite a few people in the GLBT community who caucused for Edwards, as well as some who caucused for Clinton. I'm sure Obama got some support from this constituency too, although he didn't deserve it after the McClurkin fiasco.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:01:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gay support for Hillary (none / 0)

I know several gay activists who peeled off from Obama because of McClurkin.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:26:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

The joke in all this is that, given the opportunity to get it right, Nevada opted for the antiquated caucus system that is designed from the get-go to disenfranchise voters.


by hwc on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:02:15 PM EST

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (2.00 / 1)

I agree the caucus system is unfair. And I'm not defending it. But 2 points to keep in mind.

1. Caucuses are not really "antiquated." The caucus system that we know is really a product of the post-68 McGovern reforms to the party nominating process, which required all states to have some sort of open process for choosing convention delegates -- primaries or caucuses. If you compare the caucus to what preceded it, it was actually an opportunity for rank & file activists to weigh in on delegates, platform and, after 72 and 76 cycles, the presidential preference component became emphasized.

2. NV has used a caucus system for its presidential primary selection since the 70s, so it didn't choose it for this year. Moreover, because the "western state" slot was originally scheduled to be between IA and NH, the DNC only considered caucus states. In short, don't blame us; blame NH.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:12:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

exactly (2.00 / 1)

The Iowa caucuses were supposed to be January 14, with Nevada on January 19. NH doesn't allow any other primary states to go before it.

I've written plenty about the problems with the caucus system, but I commend the Nevada Democratic Party for trying to mitigate some of these problems.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:19:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

True, but the lawsuit has the possibility of disenfranchising even more voters.  I thought the idea is to encourage more people to vote not discourage.


A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy. - Teddy Roosevelt
by minvis on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:12:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

absolutely. I agree entirely.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:19:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The lawsuit was preposterous (2.00 / 2)

Democrats afraid of democracy. Sheesh.

I still hold hope that somewhere behind that facade of control and caution that makes up Clintondom there really is some progressive fire, especially on the Hillary end, but after 16 years of boxing in, triangulation and God Help Us Mark Penn you don't know what to think.

If you go up and down the roster of Clintonians past and current you seem to find people whose primary devotion is to the Hippocratic Oath: "First, do no harm". Well okay, but that is no way to inspire the troops.

There is an old saying "You have old pilots, and you have bold pilots, you don't have old, bold pilots", which if I am sitting in the back of a 747 is kind of comforting, but if I am looking for a Fighter Ace to come in blazing away at the forces of reaction not so much.

Right now the Democratic Party is presented with three choices. We have Obama: passion without specificity. We have Clinton: specificity without passion (plus or minus a tear at a diner). Then we have Edwards who is passionately urging a specific platform of whaling the crap out of the bad guys.

Frankly I am in favor of the Big Stick approach myself, Clintonian triangulation managed to dig us out of the Reagan/Bush 1 hole but didn't really move us much up the hill and of course Bush 2 buried us again. JRE is not the second coming of FDR or JFK, but he is not a bad approximation of LBJ. Whatever you think of LBJs huge flaws, by God he moved the ball down the field and up the hill. Isn't it time we put 'progress' back in 'progressive'? Because filing lawsuits designed to suppress turnout among union workers is the antithesis of that.


PollKatz: Bush Approval in 15 polls
by Bruce Webb on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:43:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

tonight's opening statement for John Edwards (2.00 / 2)

Right now the Democratic Party is presented with three choices. We have Obama: passion without specificity. We have Clinton: specificity without passion ...Then we have Edwards who is passionately urging a specific platform of whaling the crap out of the bad guys.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: tonight's opening statement for John Edwards (none / 0)

Yes, to his credit, Edwards is certainly the most passionate and most specific about the solutions to the issues he raises.

The reason I do not support him is that his socialist platform is totally unpalatable.

You simply cannot make business the enemy because if you do they will simply go to a more permissive environment.

It would be an unmitigated disaster for the country.


by kristoph on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:01:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: tonight's opening statement for John Edwards (none / 0)

Business is not his enemy.

His (and our) enemy is the largest, greediest 1% of multi-national corporations, because they are the ones who get to write their own regulations and tax breaks and who keep draining money out of our health care system.


by greenvtster on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:47:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

Senator Obama has never been, and never will be, to anyone outside of the MSM and blogosphere, anyone other than a vain, untried, thoroughly unvetted, and essentially corrupt candidate meant to hurt the Clintons.

He will never have the base of the Democratic Party, and come February 5, when traditional non-crossover primaries are at last in play, Senator Clinton will be well on her way to securing the Democratic nomination.

The true disenfranchisment began with Iowa.  I have been personally informed of many who were offered large sums of money from Obama's Oprah Winfrey/MSM megamillions camp to drive complete outsiders to the caucus centers there.  

There never was, and there never shall be, a more unrepresentative sample in a Democratic caucus than there was in Iowa this year.  

After this year, it is my prayer that Iowa never again be granted the right to go first.  It is time that true leaner states like Florida and Ohio be granted that privilege.

The MSM and much of the blogosphere tried in vain all year to diminish Senator Clinton's national numbers.  Nothing worked.

Thus, everything depended on the MSM and the Des Moines Register poll, an Obama tailor-made model to push Obama's huge 200,000 figure--made up of very few core Democrats--to change the dynamics later in the race.  

ABC News, one of the most virulent of anti-Clinton networks, and the Republican pollster Rasmussen then adopted that wholly unrepresentative model, which is why, to the contrast of the traditional CBS and CNN/Gallup polling firms, they are attempting to show--falsely--a much closer election among Democrats than it is or ever was.

The dynamics among core Democrats--a majority of whom, after all, can and rightfully should pick their own candidate, has never, nor ever shall, desert the Clintons.  

They did not desert the Clintons through Impeachment and ceaseless investigations of them, and heaven forbid, they will not now in favor of an untested neophyte like Obama, however much the MSM and blogosphere are invested in his campaign.

Truth be told, were Nevada an actual primary, Senator Clinton would carry the state by a wide margin.  

Many of the those denizens roundly booed both Obama and Edwards in the Las Vegas debate--hard-core Democrats way of showing that the Clintons were still very much in their hearts.

For the MSM and Obama, particularly after New Hampshire, all that is left is that scorch-and-burn the Clintons policy.

So, it is now necessary to bus in the Obama, nontraditional Democrats minions into Nevada, much as his forces did in Iowa.  

Then they must play the race card in South Carolina, in the hopes that even though these are the African-American beloved Clintons, with the MSM fueling the flames, perhaps something will stick.

Perhaps those two--again bizarre and unrepresentative examples in South Carolina and Nevada, can force the Clinton loyalists--the firm base of the Democratic Party--to abandon the Clintons in favor of the unprepared neophyte.

But that isn't going to happen.

Huge numbers of Democratic Primary voters have already cast their ballots in California.  California, like New York, New Jersey, and Florida--whose delegates the Obama folk have foolishly ignored--are firmly in the Clinton camp.

But for the Obama well-paid-for minions, for whom traditional primaries with traditional voting Democrats get them nowhere, all that is really left to them in their scorch-and-burn the Clinton base policy, and thus to bus in thousands who have no real tradition in the Democratic Party.

As a fifty-four year-old lifelong Democrat, Senator Obama sickens my soul.  Like GWB In 2000, he feels he is the anointed one, sent on a mission to be a "uniter and not a divider," to be "folksy and draw the crowds," and, above all else--take the nation away from the Clintons.

Of course, that could work well with Republicans and some Independents in 2000.

But it will not work with the majority of the DEMOCRATIC base in the Democratic Party.  They still admire the Clintons, and will not disavow them.

I suggest that the Obama camp, and their outsider minions, find their own political party.

For come February 5, and beyond, when the core Democrats at long last have their say, Obama will no longer be sitting pretty.

The dynamics of the race have never changed, not throughout 2007 and certainly not now.  Despite the dreams of anti-Clinton news outlets to make it so.

Senator Clinton will rightfully secure the Democratic Party nomination, a testament to her 35-years of efforts on behalf of core Democratic Party issues.  

And the neophyte Senator Obama, like every other neophyte candidate before him, will need more than three years national experience before he can become the party's standard-bearer.

And as for the MSM and Russert/Williams/Matthews/Huffington and company talking heads?

Well, that national slap-in-the face from the loyal Democrats for Clinton has been long in coming.

On February 5, it will become reality.


by lambros on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:53:01 PM EST

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

Done and done.  If Hawkary is the Democratic nominee, I will find another party.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:00:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your real home the Naderites I presume (none / 0)

When are extreme fringers who have more in common wiht Redstate than Democrats going to fess up.


by ottovbvs on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your real home the Naderites I presume (none / 0)

LOL.  I was banned from RedState after two posts.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:00:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

can you back this up? (2.00 / 1)

I have been personally informed of many who were offered large sums of money from Obama's Oprah Winfrey/MSM megamillions camp to drive complete outsiders to the caucus centers there.  

There never was, and there never shall be, a more unrepresentative sample in a Democratic caucus than there was in Iowa this year.

I don't think you can, because I don't think what you say is true.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:14:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: can you back this up? (2.00 / 1)

He's not the only one who has alluded to antics of this sort.  But I find it rather telling that people who supposedly possess firsthand knowledge of widespread election fraud, to the detriment of their own candidate, are doing nothing to pursue it other than making vague references to it in comments at MyDD.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have heard allegations (2.00 / 1)

of out-of-state people caucusing in some areas, but this seems to have been confined to a handful of counties in eastern Iowa. I'm sure it wasn't enough to account for Obama's winning margin in Iowa.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:03:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

If we followed Lambros then we would have MAD(Mutual assured destruction)

Say hello to President John McCain


by BDM on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:13:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Great post (2.00 / 1)

Mydd and the Edwards campaign are both very lucky to have you.


by Ryan Anderson on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:08:44 PM EST

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (none / 0)

I've just been on the phone with a colleague in NV and he was saying there were numerous other unions (who have a beef with the Culinary) opposing the Obama camp.

The Nevada AFL-CIO (which officially is neutral) would apparently like to see Obama come in third to weaken the Culinary. Most of its member unions are apparently supporting the teachers (unclear how exactly).

Also, numerous unions from outside the state are sending in the troops.

Interestingly this seems to be less about the candidates and more about a union on union battle.

Do you get any sense of that on the ground?


by kristoph on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:26:12 PM EST

Re: NV: the turnout enigma (2.00 / 1)

Not on the ground but statewide, NSEA and AFSCME will both be pushing later this year for a ballot issue to raise taxes on gaming. Culinary will tactily oppose it. There are plenty of other internal dynamics at work as well.


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:29:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

after seeing the Obama turnout machine (2.00 / 1)

in Iowa, I would not bank on him coming in third in Nevada. The state is his to lose.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: after seeing the Obama turnout machine (2.00 / 1)

The CW is thats the case here too -- Obama's crack field operation + Culinary + SEIU can't lose. could be. Hard for me to know whats going on in the rurals, or Washoe. I just got a note from a friend in Washoe who said he thinks enthusiasm is very high .


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:14:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Washoe and Nevada (2.00 / 1)

My sources in Washoe are suggesting that Washoe will not be particularly good for Hillary.  

Instead, Washoe will come down to Edwards or Obama, with Edwards likely coming out on top.  IIRC, Edwards has the majority of endorsements in Washoe.  Again, of course, it will depend upon turnout.  

Desmoulins, you need to redouble your efforts in Vegas, and bring Nevada home for Edwards!

Oh, and check out my diary from yesterday...on how Edwards can win Nevada. :)


by Demo37 on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:35:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Caucus calculator updated for Nevada (2.00 / 1)

Just a quick note to say that I've updated the Caucus Calculator at http://caucusmath.com for the Nevada caucus; mobile-friendly version is till at http://caucusmanth.com/m.


http://www.actblue.com/page/asaslist
by asahopkins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:33:29 PM EST

typo (2.00 / 1)

that is, http://caucusmath.com/m for the mobile version; please forgive the typo.


http://www.actblue.com/page/asaslist
by asahopkins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: typo (none / 0)

You're terrific. Thanks


by desmoulins on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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